I recently read Sandrine Maugy’s wonderful book, Colours of Nature, which is a great reference for developing a good water color palette for botanical paintings. I found that many of her recommendations line up with conclusions I have formed through trial and error regarding selecting a palette. So her information has been very helpful to me in filling in some of the gaps in my selection of paints.
In her section on tube vs pan paints, she surprised me by stating “avoid re-filling pans with tube paints, which are not meant to dry and be rewetted several times, unless they are manufactured specifically for this purpose, as with the Daniel Smith brand”. I had never heard of this issue before–it had not been mentioned in any of the reference books I have read about botanical painting technique or in any watercolor class I have taken! In fact pan paints are not even available in any of the art stores around town except in travel sets, so I assumed that the way one got pan paint is to squeeze tube paint into a holder and let it dry. I have always done it this way.
I believe that knowing one’s tools is an important step in developing skill in an art so I just had to look into this to confirm the information. I sent Winsor & Newton an inquiry and they confirmed Sandrine’s information emphatically! Here is our dialogue:
Me: I have a question about drying and re-wetting your tube paints. Does the paint degrade in any way if I fill empty half-pans with tube paint and let them dry for later use? Does drying and re-wetting damage tube paint over time? If so in what way?
W & N:“The Winsor & Newton watercolour tubes and pans are formulated differently.
Tubes are designed to be used fresh. You place the paint on your pallet and paint. You should never allow them to dry overnight and then try rewetting them. While technically watercolour is just a mixture of Gum Arabic and pigment in fact there are many other additives to make the paint perform. Some are used to make the paint blend and flow better (wetting agents) others to keep it from clumping and to help with dispersion, and also anti-fungicides to keep mould from forming. These are designed to evaporate from the paint as it dries so they will not become part of the paint film. Once your tube colour has dried these benefits are lost.
The pan colours are designed to be used from dry. They contain the same materials as the tube colours but are manufactured differently. Instead of being of a fluid consistency they are the consistency of clay and are extruded under several tons pressure to make the cakes of colour. When you apply the water to the pan the colour is re-constituted and will have the same working properties as tube colour.”
So I followed up with the same inquiry to Daniel Smith and here is their short but sweet reply:
DS: “It doesn’t damage the paint at all and it is a very traditional way to work”.
Most of my paints are either Daniel Smith or Winsor & Newton, so I haven’t looked into what other brands have to say on this issue. I must say that I appreciate Daniel Smith paints more than ever now! I have been trying to use Winsor & Newton fresh out of the tube as they recommend by making new mixes each day, trying to match the mix I used in the same area the day before but it is a pain. I do think that the fresh paint flows a bit better but the difference is subtle. What is frustrating is that the mix dries so quickly on my palette that in order to use only fresh paint from the tube I would have to make new mixes several times a day due to the slow process of using small amounts of paint in the dry-brush technique I use for botanical painting. My life is too short to spend it in this way.
So I’ll probably go back to using my W & N tube paint in the same old way I did before until the tube runs out, then switch over to W & N pan paint, which I discovered that I can buy online. Daniel Smith paints have risen even higher in my estimation than before not only because of their beautiful colors but their flexibility of use. I still like W & N colors and am glad that I now know the optimal way to use their paints.
So which do you typically use, tubes or pans?
This blog is about my journey as a botanical artist--what I am learning, what inspires me and what I am currently drawing or painting. My desire is to continually hone my skills to better express my wonder and gratitude for the beauty of the creation around me in the Pacific Northwest (USA).
you may want to put the W&N paint on a damp paper towel in a small flat container to keep it moist longer
but i do use one W&N occasionally and i rewet it
Thanks for the suggestion, Vi. Most of the artists I have talked to rewet their W&N pigments without much if any ill effects and I will probably continue to do so too. The difference doesn’t seem to be worth the effort of using fresh paint every time, at least for the technique I use for botanical painting.
Very interesting. I had never heard any disadvantages to letting the tube paints dry. Good for you, going right to the source.
Thanks, Vicky!
Schmincke states explicitly, as Daniel Smith does, that both tube paint and pan paint of the Horadam line are the same formula, they show (in a video you can find on their homepage http://www.schmincke.de or youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9nB4emhkW0) how they fill their paint into pans, let it sit and dry and fill up and up, until the pan is full. So the properties of the colour do not change when rewetted.
I had asked W&N the same question you asked, but never got an answer.
My conclusion was, to use W&N as pan colour only but Daniel Smith and Schmincke from tubes, either fresh or filled in pans.
Most Sennelier and Daler Rowney paints from tubes will never really dry once squeezed into pans, these are constantly annoying me because of their stickiness, I use these only in the watercolour box which stays at home. When my tubes from these 2 brands are empty, I will not buy them again but rather stick to Schmincke and Daniel Smith.
Julie, I appreciate getting information and your perspective on other brands–thanks so much for sharing! I agree with you completely!! I’ll have to try Schmincke paints sometime.
If you use the paint in a more free style and let the different pigments behaviour be a significant part of the painting I think there is a big differens between pan and tubes. Try blending for exampel Quinacridone Gold with Winsor Blue (green shade) on the paper and you get much more effects if you use tube paint.
But for more controlled paintings I allways rewet my dried tube paints, and they work just fine.
Very interesting to get your perspective on this, Tipulida! Since I am more familiar with the dry brush approach used in botanical painting, I wasn’t aware of the difference between pans and tube paint for juicy washes. Thanks for commenting!
Dear Janene,
Thank you for your nice comments about my book.
I think if you re-wet squeezed tube paint over a few days, the difference is indeed so subtle that it will not affect mixes very much. But I have seen people at workshops keeping tube paint in pans for years and struggling to bring them back to a workable condition.
I, like you, am impressed with the DS paints. I did not know them before researching for my book.
Thanks again and my best wishes.
Sandrine, I am delighted that you stopped by to visit my blog! Thanks for your comment. I do love your book and find myself going back to it frequently when I have a pigment color question. I am glad that I have it as a resource.
Hi again Janene,
As you liked my book, I thought that you would like to know that after years of people asking me to start a YouTube channel, I finally did it! I posted my first demonstration a few days ago. The channel is called Flora’s Patch and it’s free to subscribe. I also started a blog on my website. Both will have tutorials and posts about all aspects of painting, including the pan vs tube issue!
Hi Sandrine, Thanks for letting me know about your blog and YouTube channel! I watched your video and it is excellent! I look forward to seeing more of your videos and to the article in my favorite magazine, Artists and Illustrators! This Pan vs Tube watercolors post is my most popular one, so I know that your readers will be very interested in it as well. Thanks for stopping by my blog–great to hear from you!
Great! Sandrine the book looks wonderful and as it was so highly recommended and the fact that you were so gracious to pop in here I am definitely going to pick it up right away! Heading over to find you on youtube now.
Hi Janene,
Great post – very informative. I have never heard of Daniel Smith paints before so a new one on me – will have to explore… I had heard about this and W&N paints and can safely say that I do prefer pans because of this. I once got some tubes just to try out as I had never used tubes before for watercolour. I was also getting irritated by the amount of dust getting stuck in my pans. Needless to say though, after a year of trying with the tubes I prefer pans. This is because I have noticed that when you revisit tubes that have been left to dry you get a sort of precipitation in them (transparent yellow is the WORST for this) which can really ruin your art or is wasted. I myself use Daler Rowney pans – they don’t seem to be too bad.
Jess, Interesting to hear of your experience with pans vs tubes. Do you mean that watery substance that comes out of some tubes when you re-open them after not using them for awhile? I can’t help but think some important ingredient must be lost when you have to discard it to get to the paint. I am still trying to use up my tubes since I spent a lot building my palette, but they will all be replaced with pans eventually!
Hi Janene,
Well there is that transparent liquid yes – which I have to say in my case had separated from the pigment mostly in the transparent yellow tube. I think it’s gum arabic. So yes, that is irritating as that can make your watercolours shine too much is you have too much on. It is also really bad when painting on vellum as it makes the paint too mobile and can damage the vellum with it’s liquid properties (ie cause cockling). However in my first comment I meant more that I get flakes of pigment precipitating out of the paint once I have let it dry on the palette… This makes re-wetting a real pain, which is why I don’t like tubes and why I understand that tube paint is not good to leave to dry out only to be re-wetted again on another day/at another time. Does this make sense? Thanks for your comments.
Jess, Yes, I think I do know what you mean. These days I only mix small quantities and frequently replace with new mixes to avoid these problems. Btw, since the Daniel Smith brand is new to you, I wanted to recommend their Quinacridone Gold. As Sandrine points out in her book, DS is the only source of the pure pigment. Other brands only offer mixes that approximate the color so they don’t perform as well in mixes. So if you are a fan of Quin Gold like I am, it might be worthwhile to to try DS’s version.
This was really helpful! I’m in Germany and it’s much harder to get art supplies than in the states! I’ve really only come across the Schminke brand and have been looking to invest in a Winsor and Newton Pan set. I’ve been using a beginners set of tube (Maries) and can definitely see the advantages to using pans. I didn’t know a lot of what you spoke of, so thanks for the lesson in materials. Your work is stunning.
🙂
In my opinion Schminke is THE best, you are lucky to have them so readily available, I bet they aren’t as expensive for you as it is us in the states.
You are basing your discussion on the assumption that the Daniel Smith person you communicated with is as well informed as the WN person. Not all companies train their staff to an equal level. Try asking a second time – preferably a different staff person and see if you get the same answer.
Sandy, You bring up a valid point but the others I have been in touch with who have asked DS this question have gotten the same response so I feel confident that it is accurate. Best wishes!
I’m the cynical type so I’m wondering whether W&N just wants you to buy pan paints instead of tubes (maybe they’re more profitable/less paint? :P) or better yet, BOTH formulations so they can make more money. I know, super cynical of me…. At most, they probably just want artists to know for sure that they’re formulated differently and so they’ll act differently.
Personally, I’ve only ever used W&N tube paints, and pretty much only after they’re laid down to dry as pans in my palette. There ARE a few pigments that act a little differently over time (Prussian Blue in particular is getting little solid flakes when rewetted which cause spotting in washes, and Sepia kind of has the same problem, so they’re probably not lying when they say their pan formulation has some advantages.) But that may just be because I don’t use them often enough or else should stop trying to use the thin filmy parts of dried-up leftover washes 😛 As for pretty much all of the other pigments I own, there’s very few problems, if any, with using them as homemade pans. Some have stayed in their wells for YEARS and still work fine.
I’ve been really wanting to try Daniel Smith ones though! I had it stuck in my mind that they were more expensive than W&N, but they’re larger tubes to begin with so they’re obviously cheaper per mL. Old habits die hard, and it’s not good to be so blindly loyal to any single brand ^_^;
i use tubes wet or dry there both the
same just pan paints are pressed to remove
the water content where as tubes aren’t dosen’t
make any difference to the performance of the
paint in my eyes
I just use pan colors. So easy to take anywhere.
I am here to put a vote in for Schminke paints. They provide a brilliant free catalogue of their colours and their properties. Having started with Windsor and Newton pans, I find myself going to Schminke the more I paint. The colours are amazing with some extraordinary translucent ones. Schminke describe their method of filling pans which clearly marries with the idea of slowly filling pans from the tube.
Melanie, I’ve heard that Schminke are really good paints and will have to try them. The catalog that not only has the paints but their properties sounds very helpful since it often takes quite an effort to track down important information like the transparency and color fastness of various pigments. Thank you for your comment.
Hi everyone and Janene,
Well, I’m new in the art society. Currently taking up Illustration and there is alot of questions going in my mind.
Okay… What watercolour or brand should I start with? In tubes or in pan? I still don’t really know if pan or tube is better? I haven’t really have the chance to touch watercolour much so I’m curious of the difference. I’m sorry if I’m bothering. Yep, besides that, I often see artists refill their pan or pallet with tubes paint but some of you mentioned that it will ruin the quality and stuff like that… SOOOOOOO more confused than before haha.
Shark, Sorry that you are confused. I buy empty pans and fill them with tube watercolors and they work okay for me. Winsor and Newton says this is not optimal but I find that the difference is slight. Daniel Smith says their paint can take the drying and re-wetting just fine. I use pans but I make them myself with tube paint…now you are probably more confused than ever! Just experiment yourself and see what you like best!
only reason companies formulate watercolor tubes and pans differently is because they want you to buy both. they do not want you to fill your own pans but buy new ones at a prime rate. you can fill at least 2 pans from a 10ml tube and 3 pans from a 15ml tube and 4 tubes from a 21ml tube. only value for money should be buying the giant pans as they contain 18 or 19ml paint at reasonable prices and you get a nice porcelain pan…
secret to W&N tube paints are to to add glycerin and maybe a drop of honey or corn syrup and sometimes a drop of ox gall… and they dry and perform just as good. i’m staying in a country where W&N had till a few years ago more or less the only artists brand available so you had to be inventive to survive…
I am not solicited by or paid by Etsy or the ArtisticKatt shop. Check out this site if you are looking to add Daniel Smith half pans to your collection. ? Custom palettes and empty palettes, including filled Altoid tins or Altoid tins filled with half pans. I am a total beginner but have fallen in love with watercolor because of its behavior and how well most of them play with each other. From my interest and curiosity, I have learned by watching artists on YouTube. Some compare brands, commenting as they paint.
From Dick Blick: ….. Sennelier has increased the paint’s honey content, lending it a smooth consistency and extraordinary luminosity. Honey helps the paint stay wet longer on the palette
and makes it easier to reconstitute if it has already cured.
Happy painting.. I have enjoyed all of the comments herein.
I had suspected for a while that tube watercolours do not benefit from being dried in pans and then re-used over time. What Sandrine says confirms my suspicions. Some of the comments are incorrect in stating that there is no difference between the tube paints and pans because they are made with the same formula. What Winsor and Newton has stated is that, although the formulation for the two is the same (like Schmincke), a DIFFERENT MANUFACTURING PROCESS is required to produce the pans. So there is a difference. The Daniel Smith response does not actually address the specific issue and fails to address the matter of the different manufacturing processes required between tube paints and pans. Interestingly, some people have commented that QoR watercolours seem to lose some of their vibrancy when squeezed into pans and let dry.
I’m one who uses tube pans on both my big and small palettes. I will put tube paint into the half pans for my smaller/portable sets but squeeze them onto my larger studio palettes. Winsor Newton and Sennelier rewet just fine with no noticeable loss in potency. I always put a couple drops of water on the dried color to reactivate it and don’t have a problem. Cheaper watercolors there can be problems with rewetting.
Did anyone find there were import charges or any other problems ordering from jacksons art in the UK shipping to the US?